Comments on: First Amendment blues: Occupy Charlottesville kills internal free speech

By: Joseph Smythe

Joseph Smythe — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 05:00:49 +0000

Shining Crawford says “Bob Brigham is a disgrace…to humanity itself.”

I’m sorry Shining, but namecalling is against our core values. Please be respectful of others here.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 04:25:59 +0000

As I have written in past and in future, it is time to move on. It is not my job to better the world. It is my job to try and help better my neighorhood, my city, my state and my country. It is not my job to tell anyone what to do, it is not my job to tell rest of world what to do and now to do it. We need to focus on who we are and stop blaming each other for our short coming. It is time to and put pressure on individuals that are elected to office to do their job within policy that are present. We don’t need more policies, we don’t need more mud throwing. We need to just focus and do our jobs. But than again I have lived too many different lives and seen too many human being die from A to Z. My argument is same no matter what — lack of character and honor………. Even in prison there is no honor, not even between them.

By: Shining Crawford

Shining Crawford — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:30:10 +0000

Carole, in my personal opinion Bob Brigham is a disgrace not only to the Occupy movement, but to humanity itself. That being said, as an admin of the OCV facebook page I do try to catch things he says and remind him that this is not how adults behave. I am aware that civility often fails with him. I've never banned anyone from the OCV site, but Bob is the only person who has ever tempted me to do so.

I would however like to apologize publicly to you. I don't know who vandalized the statue. I don't even know anyone who has hinted that they do know who perpetrated this act of cowardice. What I do know is that blaming groups without evidence, be they Occupy Charlottesville, Anarchists, or Tea Party, is a witch hunt and not a constructive use of anyone's time. Thick skin or not, I'm very sorry that these attacks have been made upon you and your associates. No one should receive abuse, and certainly not because they are hard at work trying to better the world:)

By: Shannon Harrington

Shannon Harrington — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:26:46 +0000

Right – okay! Cool. I just meant that there are people on both sides making ridiculous pseudonyms out of each others monikers. I guess I just ignore that because it says more about them than anything else. For me that's kind of a forest for the trees thing. People do it with sports teams, etc, everywhere you look. Mudslinging is dumb in any arena, and I was just speaking for myself. I tend to consider the source, and ignore it.

So again, speaking for myself, I see much bigger issues. We are all too old to be slinging mud like children – but further I kind of feel like I am too old to let some dumb "occutard", "tea-bagger" or Obama reference derail me out of working toward solution. Guess that's why it's hard for me to sympathize. But I can empathize. I don't have to relate to accept that someone else may take it so seriously that it's a show-stopper. Totally understood.

I cannot control namecallers, provocateurs, haters, people who find it simpler to generalize than truly engage… Can't do anything about that. And I know for sure that I would not generalize that one person across an entire movement, or else I would not have suggested that we may have some common ground. I have seen some tea party folks do some amazing stuff, and not in a good way. Still threw it out there.

Personal accountability means that just that one person is accountable. If I had not been taught that, I would have definitely missed out on some cool experiences due to what some might call perfectly justifiable prejudice.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:22:19 +0000

Maybe it too late…… Maybe it too late…………..
The mud has already been throw and I am as guilty as othe mud thrower.

By: Shining Crawford

Shining Crawford — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:06:11 +0000

Shannon I respect you very much, but I have to disagree on one thing: It is not okay to call individual people names, and it is not okay to call groups of individuals names. "Teabaggers" is a disgusting and hateful term and we are all to old to be slinging mud like children.

By: Ken

Ken — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 02:56:51 +0000

In regards to “teabagger,” yes it’s disrespectful, but when has Rob ever shown Occupy Charlottesville or any other liberals any respect except when they’re in the studio with him? I’ve seen conservatives complain the term is pornographic, and I’m open to that argument, but I’m not convinced.

By: Shannon Harrington

Shannon Harrington — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 01:11:25 +0000

And what I meant to type, of course, was Carole, with an E. Apologies – no disrespect.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 00:43:11 +0000

On October 3, 2011 there was a speech given at Hillsdale College by former Sen. Gramm.Toward end of his speech quote “In the end, government policy matters, the truth is, Americans are pretty ordinary people. what is unique aobut the American is an understanding of freedom and limited government that lets ordinary people achieve extraordinary things. We have been getting away from that view recently, but if we can get back to that understanding, our nation will be fine. As he goes on to say
let me conclude by saying that the argument I am making is not just about money or GDP. It’s an argument about character. If you want to see the effect of bad governemnt policy on character, simply turn on the news and see how Greek civil servants have been behaving recently. they are victimizers behaving like victims. Greek government policies have made them what they are. but what made Americans who we are is a historically unprecedented level of responsibility. The real danger today is not merely a loss of prosperity, but a loss of the kind of character on which prosperity is based.
In closing it is either you have character or not. The other question yes I am human, overweight balded, bushy eye brow male. I know who I am, my honor is for me to either made or break. It seem that some of Occupiers understand this but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By: Shannon Harrington

Shannon Harrington — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 00:42:29 +0000

I never thought of teabagger as being a big deal, just like squat-u-pier remains here unchecked. Personally, I always thought that this kind of language shows more on the speaker as being narrow-minded. That's a boring way of communicating, in my opinion, but it's nothing to get too worked up about. What we were dealing with was repeated, unprovoked attacks on a very sweet and undeserving individual. Totally cruel flavor, from my perspective. Again, personal attacks. Not cool.

Carol – I was one of the folks that had spoken with Rob about the idea of wondering about the concept of maybe (etc) there may be any meeting ground between the two groups here. After all, both groups share a lack of apathy which has invaded our citizenship, and both parties are pretty bummed about that apathy. It has happened elsewhere. I am probably one of the more conservative folks within the movement. I agree with much of the sentiment of the Tea Party, and have many friends involved with the Tea Party as well.

I don't really really relate with the stance that you take in your post, but, I gotta respect it. Personally, though, I just kind of feel like – So what? Some folks called members of the JATP teabaggers, just like someone on this page has called Occupiers a silly name. I don't see what that really matters. It's not a personal attack, it's a sweeping and disrespectful generalization of a large group by (what I consider to be) unpleasant) individuals. It is not an official stance, or a personal attack of you or me or any specific person.

And I also kind of feel like – So what if many blanketly accused OCV with vandalizing that statue, and then some said that it might have been a group vehemently opposed to the movement in order to frame up OCV? Who cares? It's all chatter compared to the big problems that we all share, and would like to see eliminated. And if one can't see through that chatter and swat it away in order to illuminate the larger picture, there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Big props to the folks in RVA who have moved past derisive distractions, and into some attempt at respectful solution together.

By: Carole Thorpe

Carole Thorpe — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 00:03:31 +0000

None of occupier Bob Brigham’s posts on the OC Facebook site which contain the slur “teabagger” have been moderated. Apparently, THAT name calling is acceptable.

I’m not thin-skinned and I really don’t care about it except to highlight the hypocrisy. I have had a couple of occupiers speak to me in a civil manner, but just as many others have said or written offensive things about the JATP. It has been suggested we may share some common concerns and some have advocated for a future dialogue, but use of the word “teabagger” – and floating the ludicrous red herring that perhaps the Tea Party was responsible for the vandalism of the Robert E. Lee statue – squashes any chance for a meeting.

By: Russell Richards

Russell Richards — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:30:47 +0000

It's revealing that the media holds the whole of Occupy Charlottesville responsible for the vandalism of the statue in Lee Park, an unsanctioned action by some lone jerk that has been roundly condemned by the movement, while in the same breath criticizing them for their attempts to weed out the jerks among them.