Born of lawlessness, the ongoing Occupy Charlottesville (OC) demonstration in Lee Park is turning ugly. Yesterday, three homeless men were arrested there for (among other things) plying two underage girls with alcohol. Drink was provided in such excess that the nascent females required hospitalization. The alleged violations took place in an OC tent.
An October 24 “Indemnity Release” and “Special Event Application” signed by Occupy Charlottesville representative, Bailee Elizabeth Hampton, definitively states that there will be no alcoholic beverages involved in this activity and that:
“We are not allowing alcohol or other substances”
In addition to ongoing “substance” abuse issues, personal safety of participants is of great concern. Today, Occupiers are asking, through a centrally posted “Camp Needs” bulletin board, for donation of 100 “rape whisles” [sic]. Connection between the arrests and the request is unclear, but the surprisingly frank appeal certainly signals a looming sense of danger in the Occupy encampment.
Prior to OC’s sanctioned occupation of Lee Park, Charlottesville City Council members lauded the organization as peaceful and well mannered. Public requests for “rape whisles,” however, seem incongruous with initial characterizations of Occupy Charlottesville, and perhaps belie the city’s stated trust in the Occupiers to “self-police.”
See Occupy Charlottesville’s “Rape Whistles” wanted posting:
After arrests, Occupy Charlottesville wants "Rape Whistles"!
Drink was provided in such excess that the nascent females required hospitalization.
“Nascent” doesn’t mean “young,” it means “emerging, becoming.” Presumably you didn’t mean to say that they are becoming female.
Literacy aside, you’re playing dumb here, as you often do. Occupy Charlottesville was characterized as peaceful and well mannered – the homeless were not.
That said, if the occupiers are worried that their presence is providing a setting for rape, they shouldn’t be requesting rape whistles, they should at very least be immediately buying them or vacating the park until they have them. But hey, a rape or two is just the price of revolution, I guess.
Rob Shilling, born of ignorance, is turning nasty. TEA party is a bunch of wacko loosers who never tried to help anyone. Nanny nanny boo boo
Oh really Ken? The price of revolution? More like a precursor of what’s to come! And you know a tree by the fruit it produces.
Call Occupy peaceful or coherent or good smelling, but eventually the send deodorant signs will give the truth away!
I honestly cannot believe you have that attitude about it. Would you send your children down there, if you have any?
Btw, “Nascent” means “beginning to exist or grow”. You may want to try a better dictionary Ken.
Rob, perhaps you can step up and be the first to be security for the whole world as well as Lee Park. These crimes occur everyday in this society and I rarely hear you mentioning them. What's going on in Lee Park is a microcosm of the larger culture as it spins into chaos and decay due to the depredations of a corporate-controlled government, a government that, until recently, had almost unlimited support from certain wings of the political structure that appear to love security over liberty and truth.
Waiting for the city or for the above mentioned constituency to effect meaningful change is no different than those deluded folk that thought Obama was going to bring any change to this disaster of a culture. I have nothing but love and admiration for those people in Lee Park that are actually trying to work with the homeless and the disturbed as they also try to wake the sleeping masses up to the Ruin that is upon us. The Coming Ruin is far more important than you, or any other media maven, scoring a few opportunistic points in a cheap game.
I'm rather disappointed in you. I thought your streak of fairness was wider than that.
Which is the hogwash? The Christian charity part, the corporate controlled government part or the Coming Ruin part?
I didn't see any Christian charity part. Coming ruin? You bet. Collision course my man. Hogwash is this whole Occupy charade. I don't believe in it. I believe and want change, but not Obama's and not OWS either. But I have posted so much about it I don't want to retype it all! Read Tatyanna's or my other threads if you want. Sorry! I love you brother!
Sorry, Harrison, but your English skills are lacking. Ask yourself why someone who wrote the first sentence in that last paragraph would then write the second. If you were reading carefully and comprehending what you read, you’d know that the second sentence is sarcastic, and is a criticism of Occupy Charlottesville.
Likewise, “beginning to exist or grow” is another way of saying “emerging, becoming.” Those girls are not emerging as females or growing into being female.
The sad state of our schools and the degraded state of our current culture are two of Rob’s concerns, and I happen to agree with him that liberalism is to blame for both. But if he’s going to gripe about education, he might learn to write well instead of all the time reaching for the pretentious big word when the little one would do. Maybe he’s just going for humor and I’m missing it.
But as Rob knows very well, words matter. Clear language matters, and all the facts matter. There is a lot of “truthiness” in the way he writes, in his choice to criticize with rhetorical flash instead of even-handed analysis. When Rob and his ilk on the Left and Right present only the facts that bolster their case, what they’re doing is lying.
These crimes occur everyday in this society and I rarely hear you mentioning them. What’s going on in Lee Park is a microcosm of the larger culture as it spins into chaos and decay due to the depredations of a corporate-controlled government,
Sheesh, is there no one else out there with anything intelligent to say on this thread? It’s corporate-controlled government’s fault that homeless guys got underage girls drunk?
Glad we're on the same page as far as the coming ruin. The most positive aspect of OWS, for all of its negatives, is its showing that the only way through it will be via a group effort. None of us will survive the hammer on our own.
Love ya back, brotherman. I hope we aren't causing you too much extra hassle.
Jamie Dyer oh, not too much. Hey Jamie, for another day but you are seeking (hardwired in fact) a relationship, deep and committed to Jesus Christ. Now, I'm going to bed!
It’s corporate-controlled government’s fault that homeless guys got underage girls drunk?
Your mighty ire at drunken homeless dudes, underage girls and random people on the net might be better spent elsewhere. YMMV.
Truth and facts can be both stubborn and inconvenient things. Experiential evidence speak for themselves. TEA Party members have been regularly criticized and ridiculed for its supposed backwards behavior. Yet, there is no record of any issues of crime, vandalism, etc, associated with any TEA Party event. Yet, rape, drug use and various other criminal activities have been officially documented by all forms of media outlets. Jamie Dyer proposes that such crimes transpire everyday in society. That is an accepted fact. However, it is important to remember that the Occupy movement has espoused itself to be superior to the "average"current society. We have been told OCCUPY is all about love, tolerance, community, etc, etc. However, it presents itself as failed as every other humanistic endeavor of utopian goals that so litter the ash heap of history as well as hell. The occupy movement is like a poor marksman with far too much ammunition, and poor aim. He shoots a lot, but continues to miss the target. Capitalism has not failed on its own. It has been perverted and distorted by a government that is too large and out of control. Remember, this country worked just fine until the early twentieth century, when the cancer spread by progressives began to infect the body of the Republic. Out of control government began with them, and crushed the natural order that our founding fathers designed. It was government that removed God from the public arena. It was government hat placed itself upon the alter meant only for the Almighty. It was government that decreed legal, the death of untold millions of innocent unborn children. A fact that is seldom discussed by any talking heads these days. How much of our tax base was destroyed by abortion. Remember, in 1991, those legally murdered would have been taxpayers. Twenty seven million in 91. Fifty seven million denied their constitutional rights today. Fifty seven million tax paying citizens who were never allowed to be. Sobering. Perhaps all of those wishing to OCCUPY something, should go camping with the Boy Scouts, and learn something about what being an American citizen is really all about. If for no other reason, then to learn how to leave your campsite in better shape than you found it.
< < Zac Fabian, a spokesman for the group, said some females are concerned for their safety due to the camp’s open nature and the random people passing through it. “Safety is an issue at night when we have every drunk person in the area strolling by and threatening to start fights or burn down tents.” “We’re worried that it could turn into something more serious.” >>
And so am I. I have been greatly concerned about this from the start and said so publicly in my speech at the JATP rally on October 21.
My issue is not with Occupy Charlottesville – but with the Democrat-controlled City Council who in my opinion, along with City Manager Maurice Jones, are negligent in their primary duty to protect the safety of our citizens. I believe they are selfishly indulging their political agenda.
I asked this at the JATP rally on October 21 and I will ask it again now — if there is a robbery or attack or rape or worse that occurs in Lee Park because they have allowed “self-policed” encampment there, will Mayor Norris and councilors Brown, Edwards, Huja, and Szakos (or Maurice Jones) accept responsibility and liability?
Jamie, I wish the people in the park were spending their own ire on helping drunken homeless people, or anyone else (and not by asking for already available social services). When I asked, on your very own site, how camping out in the park was working toward your goals, my question didn’t even make it past the moderator. Your movement has made its political statement. Now it looks increasingly naive, frivolous, and self-indulgent.
@Evan – Mr. Knappenberger, you’re a grown man. Please act like one. Because you speak for OC in public often (as I do for the JATP), you will find a tone of maturity and respect will serve your cause and those you represent more effectively.
If you are going to comment on the tea party, please do so intelligently. We recently raised more than $1,500.00 in relief funds for victims of the Louisa County earthquake (which received a dollar-for-dollar match pledge to double the donation to over $3,000.00).
The JATP has existed in C’ville for over 2 1/2 years now and has earned its reputation for respecting City and County ordinances and community standards. We do not ask for laws to be suspended for our activities and we leave every venue cleaner than we found it. While Occupy began on a shaky foot and remains on one in its first three weeks, I hope it will strive for and attain the high standard it has professed for itself.
Your “Occupy” is creating an unsafe situation for the people of the city. Aided and abetted by the City Council’s disregard for ordinances! Has Mayor Norris or Ms. Szakos, sent rape whistles down there yet? They’ve sent in other material support.
Both parties will be accountable for anything that goes on down there.
You can run back to WA state (if there are no outstanding warrants for you at this time), will you take Mayor Norris and councilors Brown, Edwards, Huja, and Szakos (or Maurice Jones) with you? This city would be much safer with them and you 3,000 miles away.
Hank, I don't recall anyone ever saying that OWS is "superior", least of all me. It's certainly paved the way for a change that the Tea Party hasn't. OWS has potential to topple the Federal Reserve, which was my original interest in the Tea Party waaay back before Dr. Paul and, later, Karl Denninger abandoned the movement. My interest in OWS is strictly because of its potential to derail the Fed. I can't speak for others involved.
I agree with your take on history but for one interpretation: The Progressive movement of the early 20th century was fueled and funded by the Money Powers, who at that time were morphing into what later became the Military-Industrial Complex Ike warned us about. He originally wanted to call it the Congressional-Military-Industrial Complex. I wish he'd stuck to his guns as we see what the MIC has brought us today.
Government is not the problem. We, the American people that have abandoned our duty to remain vigilant, are the problem. We have allowed the Money Powers to take over our government for that past century and to run roughshod over us and the world. We have allowed ourselves, our families and our neighbors to remain ignorant about the nature of money, the nature of credit and the evils of debt. Debt is slavery and always has been. Our grandparents knew it but somehow, we forgot it.
We've allowed the phantom of financial security to replace the fact of Liberty and have allowed ourselves to be sold into servitude for 30-year mortgages and lifelong creditcard debt. The foundations of America rest on freedom from debt, as inscribed in the Liberty Bell itself.
Government isn't the problem. Snakes masked as Big Banks aren't the problem. We're the problem we need to fix.
If we keep complying with what we know to be unjust, we have no one to blame but ourselves. That's just old fashioned American common sense to be seen in any writing of a Founding Father.
@ Jamie, how are people who need to be given rape whistles going to topple anything? Come back to earth please.
Sitting in that park is not safe, and accomplishes nothing but creating a haven for crime. Charlie Manson wouldn’t look out of place there, by appearance or demeanor.
Have you all gotten any rape whistles so far?
[…] drinking in an on-site tent, on the heels of unpermitted construction, followed by requests for rape whistles, and now, Occupy Charlottesville (OC) may be violating State health laws in regard to food […]
someone I know just retired from the state run prison system. Charlottesville is known by the offenders being released as the place to go to. Why, because there are people who will give you what you want. If someone is camping out in park and is afraid of being raped, go home. No one is holding a gun to your head. There are numerous social services out there in city for the individuals who need them. I know…..
@Quinn I agree. Charlottesville is for losers. But losers are not always dumb. They know about the Haven Daycare Center for the homeless (” at the Y-M-C-A…”) you can get a good meal and take a hot shower and pretend to get job counseling (” and do whatever you fee-e-eel…at the Y-M-C-A”. Thank you Village People!) Of course Lee Park is not zoned as a campground, but the new Single Room Occupancy at 4th and Preston is zoned as a flop house. If you’re still homeless, try public housing or Region Ten. Wait….
Maybe the social services are the problem. As social services have grown, our society seems to have declined. “We’ve gone down hill and we’re going down still.” How did we become a people who complain that the City ignores ordinances while we don’t notice when the City ignores the Constitution. Indeed we refer people to Unconstitutional social service agencies and watch things get worse, yet we keep expecting things to get better.
One last point: What if the Occupy people came to Lee Park during the day, day after day, and go home at night? Because of the movement’s name “Occupy” which implies illegitimate possession or control. This is the goal of the movement– More social redistribution of wealth, more occupation of your wallet.
@Blair, IMO there’s nothing Unconstitutional about a locality deciding to provide for social services, that is between them and their voters.
You are right though, as social services grow the problem seems to get worse. If gov’t programs could work, they would have by now. They fail by becoming a way of life, and Charlottesville is all the proof of that you need.
Notice Ruckersville is not being occupied.
the movement’s name “Occupy” which implies illegitimate possession or control.
Fault the city for allowing it if you will, but the original occupation was a form of civil disobedience, which is a long and honorable American tradition, going back to the Boston Tea Party. The occupation is now legal.
If gov’t programs could work, they would have by now.
Government programs aren’t light switches, that either work or don’t work, plain and simple. Their record is mixed. They foster dependency in some people, but they also help others who genuinely need help and who were not – and that’s a key point – receiving it before the programs were instituted.
Saw an Occupy Charlottesville protester loaded into a paddywagon yesterday morning. Don't know why but hope it means our city has finally stopped apologizing for the protesters and finally started holding them accountable for their actions.
When are the city officials going to kick out these miscreants from our park? Where’s the local outrage at these vagrants?
I haven’t been able to go out at night and walk my dog without fear of one of these miscreants defiling my dog. Perhaps I need a bigger dog.
Election day is coming and it’s time to vote out the complacent officials that obviously don’t care about us voters.
Right on Dogwalker, right on!.
time for a changing of guard.
I haven’t been able to go out at night and walk my dog without fear of one of these miscreants defiling my dog.
It’s nasty, irrational attitudes like that make for political polarization.
These people are delusional. It has been said about half of the people are homeless and half are Occupiers. That means there are about 25 Occupiers there everyday. The homeless are not trying to change anything. They have shunned their families and friends, their community institutions and have chosen to live on the street. They only socialize with others when they want something. That’s the life of what we used to call hobos. We recognized that they had chosen a solitary life so we left them alone.
As far as the Occupiers’ being successful, there is only 25 people out of the hundreds of thousands that live in Buckingham, Augusta, Orange, Madison, Fluvanna, Louisa, Albemarle, Nelson and Greene counties. It doesn’t seem they are winning the hearts and minds of many people. Then again they have that of the anarchists on Council during this election season so they will continue to play and have slumber parties.
I agree with Michael A. Farruggio. Jamie Dyer you can not effect meaningful change until you understand exactly what it is you wish to change. Nobody in the public has any understanding of what your mission is. So far it looks like a bunch of people with nothing better to do than hang out in the park asking people for things like food, blankets and clothing. That's exactly what the homeless people do.
Does anyone know if Councilors have visited the site?
@Evan “waaaaaaaaaaa……. the occupiers are helping homeless people!!!!!! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa……” How are you helping the homeless? Providing them with a place to drink is helping them? Are you helping them as much as The Haven, PACEM and the Hope Center? Are you paying their medical and dental bills? Are you providing with housing? Education? Employment? Transportation even? As far anybody can tell you are not helping the homeless with anything.
@Ed Zavada “Ken, actually much of our food, blankets and warm clothing go to the homeless, who very much appreciate being able to camp in the park. Some of them have gone from belligerent drunkenness to relative sobriety and are now helping us with security in the park.” Maybe this is what Evan meant as “helping.” Homeless people get all of those things from the three agencies I named above and the Salvation Army, too. Also, why do you people need security, security from whom?
“The situation there is complex, as you might expect when a bunch of middle class protesters are confronted head on with the hard reality of the social injustice we are protesting.” How do you know the homeless “sharing the park with you” are not also middle class? Maybe they are just not middle income. What social injustice have they experienced.
“We are trying very hard to strike a balance between conducting or occupation and sharing the park with the homeless, some of whom have been completely abandoned by society and are drug or alcohol abusers, prone to violence or mentally ill.” They have chosen to abandon society. How are you helping those “drug or alcohol abusers, prone to violence or mentally ill?” You are not. You do not know how to. Are you transporting them to Region Ten?
I am curious. why do you not include the homeless in your group. Are they not helping you to Occupy the park?
Also, is not your abandoning your occupation during the winter for your warm digs inside also abandoning the same people you say society has abandoned? Will you take your comrades home with you to provide them shelter, unlike this callous society? If not, are you planning to declare them a part of your group so that they can continue to sleep in the park with the politically correct Council’s permission. Will you leave them your tents? Your winter abandonment is what part of social justice? Your group seem to operate with a great deal of delusion. Rather than face the truth I am sure neither of you will attempt to answer my questions because it will cause you to have to take a painful look in the mirror.
“but the original occupation was a form of civil disobedience, which is a long and honorable American tradition, going back to the Boston Tea Party. The occupation is now legal. ”
Please check the facts about the Boston Tea Party. The Boston Tea Partiers compensated the merchants who would have been harmed by their act. It was required.
If they are operating in the “long and honorable tradition” of the Boston Tea Party, are the Occupiers going to compensate the City of Charlottesville for the harm in the form of unexpected expenses, the increased Police presence, electric power and porto-potties and who knows what else?
If they continue to liken themselves to the Boston Tea Party they will be asked to compensate for the expenses they’ve caused the city.
They’re using the dysfunctional situation resulting from government involvement in the free market, to take down the free market. Neither government nor the free market need taking down (beat it anarchists), they need to be made independent of each other again.
okay now, go ahead and correct my grammar!
Harrison, why did the Boston Tea Partiers have anyone to compensate in the first place? Because they’d broken the law. Occupy Charlottesville likewise broke the law before it was given permits. Occupy Charlottesville’s name “implies illegitimate possession or control,” you say. Likewise, the Boston group took illegitimate possession and control. That fact remains regardless of whether OC reimburses the city for expenses, and that fact is what I was pointing to.
Beyond that, your question suggests that OC has an ethical obligation to reimburse the city. Why? As American citizens they have a Constitutional right to protest. As taxpayers, they pay the salaries of police officers; they pay for city and county government expenses. As I said, civil disobedience is a long and honorable American tradition. Think back to the civil rights movement and all those marches. Did the marchers owe local jurisdictions compensation for all the extra cops needed to patrol protect (or sometimes not protect) them?
Oh, but these protesters don’t have a similarly worthy cause, you say. Well sorry, they have the same rights.
And I don’t usually correct people’s grammar, and I never correct it to be snarky. But I don’t think that people who use the English language in egregiously sloppy ways should set themselves up as a community watchdogs and ethical lights.
Is the park safe? http://www.nbc29.com/story/15972385/homeless-man-arrested-for-attempted-arson-in-lee-park
@Harrison – IMO there’s nothing Unconstitutional about a locality deciding to provide for social services, that is between them and their voters.
Not all social services- a park or road is a Constitutional social service. Think of welfare- my friends and I can’t get together and force you to contribute to a fund to help poor people. Rule of law means, with few exceptions, citizens working for govt follow the same laws as those who pay taxes. So how can the govt hire citizens to tax for welfare? That’s the basic Constitutional argument that needs repeating from time to time. There’s no sovereign immunity in USA. Voluntary charities are the way to go. To take from one to directly benefit another, we have due process (restitution, enforcement of contracts). For the benefit of everyone, we have eminent domain. The problem is not capitalism. Problem’s crony capitalism- govt workers using govt to benefit individuals or individual corporations. This is more a Tea party idea than Occupy.
Those people are vermin in need of de-lousing. They have no plans, no agenda, except to sponge off society.They are a bunch of whiners who think someone owes them a living. Newt is right, "get a bath and get a job." Tea Party events are not crime-ridden and filthy. A little soap and water, PLEASE.
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